Curse

wawa · Feb 03, 2009, 07:30 AM // 07:30

Make it so we can't use PvE only skills in elite Areas . We got plenty of 3 campaigns' skills to set up an efficient team build, there's no need for overpowered 1-2-3-kill bars that require no attributes spent what-so-ever

They are obviously somewhat useful, they get through all campaigns faster, which is good after creating 7 seven other characters campaigns get borring. But Elite areas are supposed to be a challenge.

Haters' argument is as follow: ''you don't like 'em, don't use 'em.''

who are we trying to kid here? how can you possibly get in a group without the new lame-fashion-of-the-month-bar-taken-directly-from-PvX-Wiki these days? Half the people farming elite areas couldn't get past Thommis in NM without PvE skills. When I bought Guild Wars it was all about making up build to be the most useful in the area we were going in, now it's about finding the build that can get trough them all.

Not that I blame it solely on PvE skill, players' experience is a large part of that problem, but my suggestion would at least split the brainless kids who refresh PvX webpage every 10 minutes for the lastest build from the intelligent people who see the synergy between skills who haven't left the game already.

Arduin · Feb 03, 2009, 07:43 AM // 07:43

Players have always been using cookie cutter builds for elite areas. Be it B/P, using the Holy Trinity or something else. Removing PvE-skills won't change this.

I'd suggest teaming up with guildmates or alliancemates, and setting your own conditions for those areas, if this is bothering you so much.

Ariena Najea · Feb 03, 2009, 07:46 AM // 07:46

The problem here lies in grouping. An organized Guild or Alliance team can easily wipe the floor of any of the Elite areas without overpowered builds, but what about players who aren't in a Guild or don't have buddies to group with?

Rigged PvE skills are the sole reason that the Elite areas can be done with PUGs. It is too difficult for a PUG to coordinate exact builds and have good synergy, and so PvE skills are used so that skill and coordination are mostly a non-issue. Even a bad [[Cry of Pain] spike group fares better than a similarly skilled "balanced" group. You never know what you are going to get with a PUG, whether it be leavers, idiots, aggro-happy morons, or all of the above.

Although removing PvE skills may increase player skill, PUGs in Elite areas would decline sharply. Fewer PUGs means fewer Guild Wars players, which means more bad news for the game. So unfortunately, PvE skills have to stay.

Stupid Shizno · Feb 03, 2009, 07:50 AM // 07:50

who are you to tell someone how they should play the game they bought?

bring back ursanway and be brave

Anon-e-mouse · Feb 03, 2009, 09:03 AM // 09:03

Oh yeah good idea, lets remove the only thing keeping (some) people interested in doing the 'Elite' areas.

Lets see.. what happened the last time a big PvE skill was hit by the nerf bat. Oh yes that's right DoA died overnight. Unless you are in a guild that actively does DoA, you will very rarely get a team there now. And you want to nerf all the PvE skills in every elite area?

You are not going to get PUG's working again in those areas ever. Calling for more nerfs isn't going to help at all. The 'Elitest' jerks have already killed some areas for the non-guilded person, don't make it even worse for them.

stanzhao · Feb 03, 2009, 09:15 AM // 09:15

people play gimmick builds in elite areas to get it done as quickly and efficiently as possible.

when you PuG, you basically dont want to waste your time having to go through a whole load of areas carrying another player along. so people play those easy builds because even a bad player can get away with it. which in the long run is a bad thing, but helps PuG groups get things done basically.

as mentioned above, if your really concerend, go with an alliance group etc. thats pretty much what i always do. and to be honest, its a lot more fun. if you play with people who know how to play the game properly, you can run any build you like and still complete an elite area.

for instance, when someone in the guild needs to do a mission or vanquish etc, we will take the most messed up builds if we can get away with it. i'll run my ele with some hammer knockdown build with aftershock and some other AoE skills, or for SoO HM i ran some ride the lightning smiting build. we'll have hamstorm warriors, IW mesmers with frenzy. all just to have fun. and we can still do the missions/dungeons/vanquishes etc because we know what were doing.

so to be honest your big concern should be what exactly you are doing to make things easier by joining a guild, or finding a core group of friends to play with. Rather than trying to change the meta.

Arkantos · Feb 03, 2009, 10:19 AM // 10:19

I'm all for this, but the problem is, the majority of the community suck, to be blunt. Remove PvE skills and most people can't play the game. If people can't play the game, people won't play the game. If people start quitting because of this, ANet has less potential GW2 customers.

So basically if ANet did this they'd be pleasing a minor part of the community, and getting most of the community angry. Businesses don't want angry customers.

As much as I'd love to see PvE skills removed, most players now sadly rely on them. Just accept the fact that most players are bad, and ANet want to keep them.

code1101 · Feb 03, 2009, 10:47 AM // 10:47

I agree with the OP totaly ... actually I have some more ideas:

1- we should also prevent consumables from being used in these 1337 4r345.

2- prevent players from taking heros into 1337 areas. I'd rather go with a 1337 player like the OP than going with my heros.

3- also why armbraces are so easy to get ?!?! an armbrace should be more like 100 gem of each type.

4- I'm not going to mention Urgoz or the Deep ... 12 players ?!?! how dare you anet ?!?!

5- UW in 30 mins ... damn speed clears ... I suggest putting a mallyx near every reaper.

6- even when all that is done we still fell the game is easy

... plz remove all elite skills anet.

Note: anet learned alot from this thread and they decided that when you buy GW2 you won't get a game rather you will get a nice sword "the skin will depend on your current hom" and you will get a plane ticket to a dangerous place that they have set up specially for elite players like th OP .... IS THAT ELITE ENOUGH FOR YOU???

Rolain · Feb 03, 2009, 11:04 AM // 11:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by code1101

I agree with the OP totaly ... actually I have some more ideas:

1- we should also prevent consumables from being used in these 1337 4r345.

2- prevent players from taking heros into 1337 areas. I'd rather go with a 1337 player like the OP than going with my heros.

3- also why armbraces are so easy to get ?!?! an armbrace should be more like 100 gem of each type.

4- I'm not going to mention Urgoz or the Deep ... 12 players ?!?! how dare you anet ?!?!

5- UW in 30 mins ... damn speed clears ... I suggest putting a mallyx near every reaper.

6- even when all that is done we still fell the game is easy

... plz remove all elite skills anet.

Note: anet learned alot from this thread and they decided that when you buy GW2 you won't get a game rather you will get a nice sword "the skin will depend on your current hom" and you will get a plane ticket to a dangerous place that they have set up specially for elite players like th OP .... IS THAT ELITE ENOUGH FOR YOU???

I'm all for these suggestions. In fact, I think that to get an armbrace, we should need 1337 gems, of each type. Then you could show that you were truly 1337.

Also, why stop at a Mallyx at each reaper? You should also have an Iron Forgeman and Shiro there.

Then all the n00bs would leave and everyone left would be 1337.

DoomFrost · Feb 03, 2009, 11:19 AM // 11:19

/notsigned

"You cannot use this PvE only skill in this elite area even though this elite area is PvE"

I don't think the message makes sense. Maybe it's how I worded it. Really it doesn't make sense. If this should come to pass, you'd have to call them "SemiPvE Only skills" or "PvE Only except Elite Areas skills." Neither would be comfortable to say or look at.

Anyways play the game how you want, let others play the way they want. I understand that it must be boring using PvE skills and playing the same builds as everyone else, but who's to say another over powered build wouldn't rise up and claim it's place if PvE only skills were restricted from Elite Areas? It would do nothing but crop up another list of complaints.

Oh if it means anything, I don't use PvE only skills, save one or two (Sunspear Rebirth Signet and Elemental Lord).

zwei2stein · Feb 03, 2009, 11:34 AM // 11:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ariena Najea

The problem here lies in grouping. An organized Guild or Alliance team can easily wipe the floor of any of the Elite areas without overpowered builds, but what about players who aren't in a Guild or don't have buddies to group with?

Rigged PvE skills are the sole reason that the Elite areas can be done with PUGs. It is too difficult for a PUG to coordinate exact builds and have good synergy, and so PvE skills are used so that skill and coordination are mostly a non-issue. Even a bad [[Cry of Pain] spike group fares better than a similarly skilled "balanced" group. You never know what you are going to get with a PUG, whether it be leavers, idiots, aggro-happy morons, or all of the above.

Although removing PvE skills may increase player skill, PUGs in Elite areas would decline sharply. Fewer PUGs means fewer Guild Wars players, which means more bad news for the game. So unfortunately, PvE skills have to stay.

Why should elite area be PUGable? And if PUG should be able to complete area (not unreasonable), why should it be able to *farm* it effectivelly?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arkantos

I'm all for this, but the problem is, the majority of the community suck, to be blunt. Remove PvE skills and most people can't play the game. If people can't play the game, people won't play the game. If people start quitting because of this, ANet has less potential GW2 customers.

So basically if ANet did this they'd be pleasing a minor part of the community, and getting most of the community angry. Businesses don't want angry customers.

As much as I'd love to see PvE skills removed, most players now sadly rely on them. Just accept the fact that most players are bad, and ANet want to keep them.

There are alternative ways to keep bad players playing than allowing them to farm elite areas with ease.

the_jos · Feb 03, 2009, 12:19 PM // 12:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by wawa

who are we trying to kid here? how can you possibly get in a group without the new lame-fashion-of-the-month-bar-taken-directly-from-PvX-Wiki these days?

Y, who are we trying to kid here?
Like it was possible to get into a group without Steel Wall, B/P, Kaiz' build, Trappers and all other sorts of farming builds.

The only thing that the stupid PvE skills and Shadow Form changed is that there are actually people grouping in those areas.
Making it harder to spot the balanced groups, if there are any forming at all.

In the past, if you were lucky to find a 'balanced, non pvx or meta group' you had about 90% chance of failure.
And not much learning experience, the next time you'd go there it would be a completely different group.
The only sure way to play elite areas balanced was and is with a guild of alliance team.
Always been like that and it will never change.

So either you want those areas to be guild/alliance only or you want them to be accessible to all and accept gimmic builds.
It's not that hard, I'd say.

Brawn Over Brains · Feb 03, 2009, 12:28 PM // 12:28

If you don't like PvE skills, don't let anyone you're with use them?
It's quite simple.
I imagine the ratio for this thread would be
(Signed:Not Signed)
1:50
I know many players find this game hard enough without all the nerfing going on and such, and it annoys me that people that could just as easily play a different game because you don't like it try and make it suck for others!

cataphract · Feb 03, 2009, 12:40 PM // 12:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by wawa

Make it so we can't use PvE only skills in elite Areas . We got plenty of 3 campaigns' skills to set up an efficient team build, there's no need for overpowered 1-2-3-kill bars that require no attributes spent what-so-ever

IMHO, overpowered mobs warrant the use of overpowered PvE-only skills. Furthermore, I'm not too crazy about the idea of spending several hours to clear an area. It's insane and not in the slightest bit GW-like.

Quote:

Originally Posted by zwei2stein

Why should elite area be PUGable? And if PUG should be able to complete area (not unreasonable), why should it be able to *farm* it effectivelly?

Why shouldn't it be?

NF has been around for how long? Two years?
If they're managed to dumb-down the whole game, why should the so called "elite" areas be any exception?

Armbraces?

kostolomac · Feb 03, 2009, 02:44 PM // 14:44

Quote:

But Elite areas are supposed to be a challenge.

I hear this all the time.
The greatest challenge in pve is when you do something for the first time. Elite areas in GW are several yeas old , how are they supposed to be a challenge?

Only new content and new content alone can make GW pve challenging.

Quote:

IMHO, overpowered mobs warrant the use of overpowered PvE-only skills. Furthermore, I'm not too crazy about the idea of spending several hours to clear an area. It's insane and not in the slightest bit GW-like.

Amen to that.

And the_jos I agree with you, very well said.

/notsigned

romeus petrus · Feb 03, 2009, 02:48 PM // 14:48

I am all for bringing the elite status back to elite areas. I think a better way of doing that is by giving rewards that can only be obtained by say using no PvE skills in HM; a new skin that only drops in HM if no one on the party has a PvE skill on their bar for example. Just my $0.02.

MirkoTeran · Feb 03, 2009, 02:59 PM // 14:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by wawa

Make it so we can't use PvE only skills in elite Areas .

Add no use of cons and PvP version of all skills then I'll sign.

But all that will only fix one part of the problem. Making good AI would be better addition.

Arduin · Feb 03, 2009, 03:06 PM // 15:06

To add, you ever noticed how powerful a team of Necro's with [Discord] is? It kills mobs before they even have a chance to get a healing spell off.

And that's a non-PvE-only skill.

DarkGanni · Feb 03, 2009, 03:33 PM // 15:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arduinna

To add, you ever noticed how powerful a team of Necro's with [Discord] is? It kills mobs before they even have a chance to get a healing spell off.

And that's a non-PvE-only skill.

This ^

And

PuG's aren't even able to do something with the current imbalanced pve skills, let alone without. Their builds suck everywhere you go (this counts also for the longtime players I have seen on GW).

PuG Mentality hasn't got better in almost 4 years time, how would this idea make it better?

Hailey Anne · Feb 03, 2009, 05:20 PM // 17:20

/notsigned. Now can we please stop with the 100s of SAME threads about "fixing" PvE. Your suggestions(not yours personally but all of the same type of suggestions) would actually hurt the game not help it. The reason it would hurt is that these builds are the only reason pugs can make it and the only reason they even attempt it so no pugs=even more dead areas=bad. If you want to play without PvE skills go with a guild or friends and stop trying to tell others how they should play the game. We all have a choice yet youre trying to take others choice away from them.